stiiggy

21st Sep 2020

Top Gun (1986)

Question: Does anyone else think it was cheating for Jester to go below the hard deck after he was out-maneuvered by Maverick? He knew that it would be against the rules for Maverick to engage after he dropped below 10,000 ft.

Answer: Jester called "no joy" which ends the engagement. After that he can go below the hard deck, Maverick can't be credited with a kill that's below the hard deck and after the call of no joy.

stiiggy

In reality Jester's "No joy" ("I can't see you!") call would've been followed by Maverick's "Continue" ("I see you (and I'm about to shoot you down!")) and after that if Jester still would've gone under the hard deck the fight would've ended with a maneuver kill for Maverick. (enemy crashed into the ground). Only a "Knock it off" call would've ended the fight there and then.

"Continue" is not in the NATO Brevity Codes, therefore you answer is invalid.

stiiggy

Yes it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiservice_tactical_brevity_code

Well, don't I look silly. Thanks for the correction sir :).

stiiggy

Your answer is basically just explaining what Jester was trying to achieve, but didn't address the question of motive. Jester's claim was that due to an unsafe condition he needed to terminate the engagement, while Maverick believed he was doing it to avoid getting caught in a disadvantageous situation where he could be "hit." The movie makes it appear Maverick was right so Jester doing it was cheating. It would be like an athlete who is behind claiming an injury to end a match without anyone yet winning in order to avoid losing.

2nd Jun 2014

Top Gun (1986)

Question: True or False: once a missile has been fired at you it's locked on to hit you and no way that banking hard would evade an incoming missile, unless you use countermeasures of flare and or chaff?

TShep81

Chosen answer: False. Missiles are fast, but they are not as agile as most fighter jets. One of the problems the first Sidewinder missiles encountered was that the Korean MiG-15's could simply out turn them (which is explained as the purpose of Top Gun in the movie). Missiles have gotten better, but so have the planes. In close quarter combat, like shown in this movie, fighters could potentially turn away from a missile.

Friso94

The Sidewinder came into US Navy use in 1956 after the Korean War had ended. The first air-to-air missile kill took place in the Vietnam War.

stiiggy

Answer: To clarify, there are different types of missiles with different types of seekers. IR (infrared), also known as heat seeking - these are used in close range and track the target aircraft's heat from its engine. To defeat this, the targeted aircraft would use a combination of maneuver and flare (designed to be a hotter heat signature than the engine). SAR (semi active radar) - medium range, where the firing aircraft uses its own radar to lock the missile onto the target. Once the missile has enough tracking fidelity of its own, it takes over its own guidance and the firing aircraft can maneuver away from the target. To defeat, the targeted aircraft uses a combination of maneuver and chaff (metal particles designed to trick the incoming missile into thinking that is the airplane). AR (active radar) - medium to long range, the missile uses its own radar system to track, acquire, and seek. It's defeated the same as SAR missiles.

CUAviator

7th May 2004

Top Gun (1986)

Correction: Because Jester was the target and could do that - Maverick followed him below the Hard Deck and then engaged his weapons - a direct violation of the rules.

wolfchild

A "hard deck" is technically the ground, in regards to the training exercise. So Jester certainly went against the spirit of the rules by essentially crashing his plane to avoid Maverick. When you consider the fact that, by doing so, he put Maverick into the position of following him (and when you have extremely egotistical, adrenaline pumped pilots chasing you...they are going to be apt to follow you), he essentially put everyone at risk. That said, Jester could have gotten his discipline off screen, so this really can't be considered a mistake.

oldbaldyone

He went below the hard deck after breaking off the engagement when he lost sight of Maverick and called "No Joy" as per the NATO Brevity Codes. Because he was no longer engaged he could go below the hard deck, Maverick couldn't. So nothing to see here.

stiiggy

15th May 2020

Top Gun (1986)

Corrected entry: The call of "going ballistic" is totally wrong. Calling "we're going ballistic" is a warning call to all other aircraft that you have no control of your airplane and it's only being controlled by the laws of physics (diving, turning etc) and not the pilot.

stiiggy

Correction: While you are correct technically, I don't believe Goose was referring to the technical use of the phrase/term. He was using it as a indication of excitement. "My daughter went ballistic when she saw the new puppy."

oldbaldyone

The fact that you point out the mistake is correct isn't a good way to open a correction. Plus, there's no indication he's expressing "sudden excitement." On top of that, even if he did intend to say "we're excited", it would still be a character mistake to use a specific phrase that has a specific meaning out of context like you're suggesting.

Bishop73

I did not point out of the "mistake" is correct at all. I pointed out that what the poster stated is true (to my knowledge) about what going ballistic means in the technical flying a plane sense. However, this is not how Goose is using it. He was absolutely expressing excitement. Maverick states that they are going vertical. Goose replies "We're going ballistic Mav, go get'em." He is not saying it to alert other craft (thus the call out specifically to Mav). This was a phrase used a lot in the 80's, but not much anymore. "Dad is going to go ballistic when he finds out", or "She is going to go ballistic when we get to Disney." It expresses anger, excitement, craziness. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/go%20ballistic.

oldbaldyone

The NATO Brevity Code manual (google it), specifically mentions "going ballistic" as a the term to be used once you have lost control of your aircraft, a warning to others. It's a term that was adopted *after* the movie for expressing excitement.

stiiggy

When the couples are all together at the restaurant/bar (01:01:45), Carole tells Maverick, "He told me all about the time you went ballistic with Penny Benjamin" (the Admiral's daughter). So considering his wife, Carole, uses this specific slang expression it's believable that Goose also uses the slang in this way despite its "technical" use. During the earlier training mission (00:31:55), when Goose reacted to Maverick going vertical after Jester goes vertical, Goose, perhaps inappropriately, casually used the term only while speaking directly to Maverick, so if this is to be listed as any kind of mistake it would be a character mistake. This movie was released mid 1986, and excitedly "going ballistic" (just like "going bananas") was indeed used prior to this movie's release.

Super Grover Premium member

Yet, they are not losing control of the aircraft in that scene, and he is not warning other aircraft since it's not happening AMD he is only talking to Maverick (the pilot who would be well aware if they were ballistic). I don't know exactly when the term hit the main stream as a term of excitement but it's pretty clear to me that he is saying it that way. Classifying this as an error would be like saying the lines "a walk in the park Kazinsky" or "the defense department regrets to inform you that your sons are dead because they were stupid" are errors because neither is true. He wasn't reporting to anyone that they were ballistic. He was encouraging his pilot and just happened to use an aeronautical statement in his excitement.

oldbaldyone

From The Dictionary of Clich├ęs by Christine Ammer: "It began to be used to describe human anger in the 1980s and quickly caught on." No exact date, but was used in magazine articles in the late 1980's, so probably by around 1986 it was a popular expression.

jimba

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